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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
975
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 14:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
Mr Rise
Nice to see this happen, not played yet with all numbers yadaya but with Rails changes aren't we going to see stupid Raxes and Deimos everywhere?
Just a first feeling, maybe second dmg bonus needs to be turned in to better optimal or fall off. Notice I will not complain at all if I have full Gallente doctrines going around but rails changes +bonus might make these 2 ships a bit out of whack.
4 meds = enough to make it a-la ASB Vigilant with JUST better resist profile and lows full of dmg mods which might finish with a ship taking on all others specially in numbers. Hope I'm wrong and it's just a bad feeling, I want my Gallente ships better but not out of whack to see them nerf to the ground in 6months. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
975
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 15:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
TheButcherPete wrote:Using HMLs to snipe is kind of silly...
The whole point of medium long range weapons being to make them worth using at decent ranges with decent DPS and YES, Heavy Missiles are the medium long range missiles weapon, therefore needs to be on the line with medium turrets instead of Rapid Lights becoming seriously OP as anti support.
Rapid lights are the weirdest weapon system in the game, those are not small versions nor med versions, just like if you had some sort of middle ground turret in between small and medium with small tracking and medium dps ability, which is silly imho and should be removed from the game or turned in to exclusive defenders (FOF?) launchers with even higher rof
Arty canes are already used as anti support and have such alpha nothing from frigate to destroyer can decently survive to one or two volleys at best from those, with missile mechanics and a ship like Cerberus with those RLM faction ammo/javelins nothing even at 8km/sec can ever approach your fleet to provide warp ins or drop a bubble unless suicide bubbles which is not only stupid as game play but completely uninteresting for whoever plays those. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
975
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 17:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Knoppaz wrote:..a shield boost bonus for the Vaga? ..on a 6/4/5 layout? ..really?
Xl-ASB Vaga was already waaaaaaay good, now will just be in god mode [On] bye bye cynabals (which is also good) *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
975
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 19:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Romar Thel wrote:Raging Beaver wrote:Great changes! Time to go to Jita and sell all HACs... And let me guess, you're going to make them more expensive as well, right? They worth being more expensive after THAT boosting! hahahah. Good point bro
Just bring more of T1 versions and accomplish the same job for a fraction of the cost. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
977
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 19:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Romar Thel wrote:Yeah probably t1 will get even more expensive after this change.. Higher demand! lol
1 researched BPO of "whatever T1 Cruiser of the month" is cheap, requires little effort to build a couple ones and perform as well as T2, if they become more expensive because offer/demand usual florensiensis dialog blahblahblah players can always build their own for little effort and collect some tears on top.
On topic: as mentioned above there's no reason why T2 cruisers shouldn't have a third rig slot, it's not like if they were really harmful anyway. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
977
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 20:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
Drunken Bum wrote:Diemos still sucks. Munin doesnt really look good for anything either. I like most of the changes, ishtar meeds more cpu. Deimost and munin just really dont look worth flying for anything really
ASB shield extender MWD point, DCU mfs/te nano+Blasters = OMGFCKPOWNMOBILE *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
980
|
Posted - 2013.07.18 23:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
gawrshmapooo wrote:Do you even dual armor rep bro? My current Sacrilege SOP: 1: Stagger both reppers 2: leave them on because sexy sexy cap 3: Kill everything (A bit slowly because my dps sucks.)
In my experience it's basically the only Amarr ship WITHOUT horrific cap issues.
Better HACS: Dps needs to go up Cost needs to go down Tank needs a slight to moderate boost. At 240mil a pop...come on.
Using EIPH for the sake of some close to reality numbers and let's assume it's a non researched T2 BPC production cost is about 175Million isk, average price sell in Hita is 168M
168M (without fit) for a ship having good bonus for the job is supposed to do is OK, the reason why it has been the most used HAC for years.
Now if I pick Deimos, Munin, Eagle (just for these) for what they're worth for on the battlefield it's a pure waste of minerals and components, what are those supposed to do actually compared to the Zealot?-ho arty munins against caracals are quite good ... and die horribly to those too, for one munin pop you need to kill about 4 to 5 caracals that are not only as good in dps terms but also in tank, so why bring Munins under my Caracals missiles?
Aren't those supposed to have the same role and do the same job differently?-yes they are but they can't.
The current med weapons changes will help a bit, some minor changes on the hulls will help a bit and make them better than before but doesn't mean they will be able to compete vs Zealot nor vs T1 versions and this is what is boring me a bit. They're undoubtedly better at current numbers but if this step forward is jut to put again the Zealot 2 steps ahead then it's kinda sad for the greater good of the game. Some testing is needed, even if I doubt any majors alliances will go on Sisi make huge HAC fights so CCP gathers numbers
Anyway why is Deimos loosing armor? -because it's intended to be shield fitted someone is telling me or at least no one could come with a decent armor version able to achieve his task. It gets killed before getting in range to apply dmg with blasters (in fleets dies pretty), it's slow it's so dam slow after getting scram and double web it's a fleet slot waste when a scorch pulse Zealot wouldn't have half the issues and actually do dmg.
For small gangs/solo these changes look good, for fleets I'm not sure. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
984
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 13:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ral en Thielles wrote:Vagabond Dead... was fun wile it was usable. That's prior TE changes and Now THIS ... After TE nerf, nor cynabal nor the vaga can be called a frig killer ... What are they good for then ? Changes now: 7.5% shield boost bonus.??? Why? The one hac that has big cap problems when using MWD module, now gets Active Tank bonus... Active tanking vs ship that can take you out in two shots, its just not possible! (Talos anyone... ) I think it useless to put Active tanking bonuses on frigate and cruiser size ships at all.
Because the current ASB Vaga is already a very good ship with ASB fit and with that bonus will be a much better Cynabal than Cynabal
Ral en Thielles wrote:Deimos MORE SPEED PLEASE Can someone please explain to me the roles thing again... I just can not understand how T2 ship can be worse then it's T1 variant! Or maybe we should only use hacs with armor and AB, so we can use that extra resists. I am disappointed ...
Because Diemost is now faster/tankier AND dps wise shield fitted for solo/small gang work, with armor retains same issues while using blasters but will probably be a bit more used in armor fleets with rails competing with scorch pulse Zealots.
Zealot was already the only viable HAC, it's just getting better and I will not complain about, can fly them all so I'll fly the next pownmobile (pulse Zealots most probably) *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
984
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 14:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Because the current ASB Vaga is already a very good ship with ASB fit and with that bonus will be a much better Cynabal than Cynabal
Except Minmatar aren't brawlers, they are fast kiting ships. The Vaga is supposed to be a kiting ship, except it sucks because the Cynabal outclasses it in every way.
And the Vigilant outclasses Deimost for dozens miles, Gilas are better than Eagles and so on, but the real issue with Cynabal is not really the tank or dps ability, it's rather the stupid agility and speed this thing brings to the table and that's what needs to get nerf to bring it at reasonable kitting/escaping abilities.
Right now an ASB Cyna can get in scram web range and still manage to GTFO unless under heavy fire, it's clearly the OP mobility that makes it that good. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
985
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 15:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
Noisrevbus wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote: Because the current ASB Vaga is already a very good ship with ASB fit and with that bonus will be a much better Cynabal than Cynabal
Which has what real application exactly? It's better in a fitting where you and your m8m8 decide beforehand to test each other's tanks on a station undock or "halp top belt" where he doesn't even try killing you? The Vagabond used to be a roaming ship that spread emergent content throughout EVE, not some play-at-war test-dummy for dudes doing SiSi in Lowsec.
You clearly haven't fought one of these yet, they can be pretty nasty but yes have to pick their fights, those are not pownmobiles just because they can fit an XL-ASB
I might be in the minority side thinking this bonus isn't bad but in certain situations will make it clearly op specially considering when lowering the ASB size the ship can fit bigger guns.
Now if you're implying this is not a fleet ship with that bonus I agree, just like I agree majority active rep bonus are crap if it's not a shield ship because :ASBpwnsALL:
Thing is, what are we arguing about? -what is the specific role these ships are meant to fill from CCP philosophy (Gäó) or are arguing from personal points of view?
If AHAC/SHAC is meant to be ZDE DPS specialised cruiser then this rebalance is failing terribly, no one seems to agree what they need to achieve their task and when I look at many bonus + med LR guns changes all I can say is that they'll be better, more dps better bonus is always better, not necessarily the exact buffs they need but they'll be better after all. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
985
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 15:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
Noisrevbus wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote: You clearly haven't fought one of these yet, they can be pretty nasty but yes have to pick their fights, those are not pownmobiles just because they can fit an XL-ASB
I might be in the minority side thinking this bonus isn't bad but in certain situations will make it clearly op specially considering when lowering the ASB size the ship can fit bigger guns.
I don't think you're getting it mate, but that's my fault for using sarcasm.
- EVE Online is a sandbox MMO.
- It's not designed around 1v1, it's designed around PvX.
- I don't mind if there is a duelling culture or similar in the game. It's a sandbox, any creative way to play is good.
- However, if we start designing the game around 1v1 (or any similar targetted setting) we are in deep water.
- What is "clearly OP" to you in a duel-setting is clearly not OP if you decide to take on more difficult odds.
- Even if you prefer flying alone, a solo gameplay does not mean you don't fight larger groups 1vX.
This is similar to when we have to lecture PvE players on the principle that PvE in a sandbox means PvX where you are meant to conduct your PvE in a setting of both PvE and PvP (ie., PvX). Many of the new-school PvP players are just as stupid and seclusionist as the empire PvE players they like to mock. I've never had any issue with PvE players, I only growl a little bit when it comes to seclusionists with entitlement issues. Entitlement issues like "the Vagabond is good for what i do with it, where i pick my consentual fights without travelling".
Don't take me wrong I do understand all the points you made but I still think options and alternatives can't hurt pvp in any shape or form be it for solo small gang or massive fights.
I have a lot more experience in large fleets fights be it as dumb F1 BS shooter as dictor as inty or anti support pilot (I have logis skills but I don't fly them I hate them all so hard you can't imagine, remove them from the game dammit !!), not good but rather nice experience in roaming gangs but absolutely terrible in 1vs1 fights and will not excuse my lack of skills in this playing area because I don't use OGB despite being able to.
Back to the point about Vaga, I still think this isn't a very bad change and fits quite well in the "emergent content" ability of Vaga, now for fleets if you ask me this bonus is absolutely terrible, horrible, does nothing and I'll take an SFI over the Vaga every time. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
985
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 16:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
ConranAntoni wrote:Why does the Deimos still have the MWD cap thing when most in EvE agree it's hilarious for the wrong reasons. Why not throw in tracking or if you want to troll, some kind of repair bonus.
Schhhhhhhht !!!
Don't, just don't !!
Vaga got it so don't give any idea like this or it might happen !! *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
985
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 16:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Blastcaps Madullier wrote:how about instead of 5k range bonus, +1 extra Drone controlled per level. on the heavy assault cruiser? :) the Ishtar is a drone boat after all :)
Because this would make it completely out of whack.
6 DPS drones + 4 ECM drones = I win machine. NO, really this is an awful idea.
*removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
987
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 16:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
Noisrevbus wrote:Others have said it, you say it yourself: It does not. It's supposed to provide an alternative to what the Cyna, SFI and other ships do better. Yet even the Cyna and SFI are in dire positions overall.
Indeed and afterthought maybe a tracking bonus would be much better for this ship and useful in every pvp situations:
The 10% tracking bonus on the SFI is absolutely fantastic, alpha with arties is good for a cruiser, dps with autos and tank is also pretty good imho and puts this ship on the right spot.
Now to make our Vaga a bit more interesting this tracking bonus would probably be the best bonus choice over the shield boost one and at the same time offer a larger window of pvp possibilities. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
987
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 17:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote: 3. The vagabond. You're calling it a close-range shield brawler, giving it a rep bonus...with 4 mid slots? Excuse me? if you had any sense at all, you're realize that even the HAWK has 5 mid slots. Think about this. Think about it hard.
Hawk and hookbill both have 5 mids. Vaga could easilly drop a low slot since if it is going to brawl it doesn't need 2 of the nerfed tes anymore. I would even rather it to drop 2 lows and move them to mids.
+2 mids would make it a bit too powerfull when you think about fitting possibilities and how much out of whack shield modules are for a fast kiting ship, but 5 indeed is a must have for any decent shield ship.
The question is, is Vaga really a shield ship or an armor one? current bonus says shield but slots numbers....lol ? *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
988
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 18:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Vaga is silly.. Its a shield ship with five lows and four mids (Clearly designed around the XLASB fits)
Also why is the Vaga allowed to be so fast? I get that it used to be a part of its bonus but now it basically has five bonuses.. It goes 700 m/s faster then a cerb... SEVEN HUNDRED.
Because as a specialized ship there's no reason why Cynabal is faster and agile, one or the other but not both and believe me I don't want to see Faction cruisers loose their tr+ál+ál+á because they're so awesome to fly it would be bad for the game to break them down to oblivion.
However I don't care Vaga being the fastest ship in the game, at all. This is exactly what this ship should be about, 5mids 4 lows 5 Turrets and zip zap all around, however to achieve this over the Cynabal and as all T2 cruisers are in desperate need a third rig slot is mandatory, not an option but simply mandatory and Cynabal must get a nef to agility after this but not keep and the speed and the interceptor agility. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
988
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 18:23:00 -
[17] - Quote
Maximus Andendare wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Role Bonus: Can fit Target Spectrum Breaker. -90% to fitting and capacitor usage.
Now the HAC has a purpose that T1 cruisers, faction cruisers and aBCs can't do nearly as well. Engage the blob and perform decently at it. Now moving those utility high slots to a medium makes even more sense. Have all my likes.
Good idea indeed. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
989
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 18:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:for the deimos to get more viability out of blasters i think it needs a stronger falloff bonus or a second falloff bonus and more tank.
DEIMOS - Like the Thorax, Deimos now has 4 mids and gives up the extra high. It also goes faster and aligns faster.
Role Bonus: 50% reduction in MicroWarpdrive signature radius penalty
Gallente Cruiser Bonuses: 7.5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret falloff 5% increase to MicroWarpdrive capacitor bonus
Heavy Assault Cruiser Bonuses: 7.5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret falloff 10% Medium Hybrid Turret damage
Slot layout: 6H, 4M(+1), 6L; 5 turrets, 2 launchers Fittings: 1230 PWG(+240), 380 CPU (+30) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1550(+390) / 2200(+160) / 2000(-531) Capacitor (amount) : 1500(+125) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 230(+22) / .475(-.055) / 11460000 / 7.54s(-.875) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km / 270 / 6 Sensor strength: 15 Magnetometric Signature radius: 110
I'm gonna be honest with you and keep track on my view of AHACs, that MWD capacitor bonus clearly needs to get thrown down the toilets, flushed to oblivion and deleted from data base forever.
Once that is done, increase ship fittings accordingly but most important, for this sip to ever achieve what he's meant to while fitting the shortest range weapons in the game is either:
-speed without competing with Vaga and we're close to so no more speed !!
-buffer through resist profile: and option here and replace the mwd bonus for a 3%armor resist? -silly, it's Amarr domain.
-increase armor HP? -hell yes! -replace mwd bonus for 5% armor bonus and agility (compensation for mass addition)
-wet dream: increase hull repairer effectiveness for 10% HAC skill and cycle for 37.5% % per level.
Woosh sry for the wet thingy *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
989
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 18:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Baren wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:None of your(player) silly ideas justify the 15x price tag over t1 cruisers or the 3-4x the price tag of ABC's.
You can modify these things all you want in a 1000 different ways, unless you jack the power WAY up, or drop the price WAY down, nobody will fly them simply because the cheaper options do as much or almost as much for a fraction of the cost. this is agreed, another reason why if the nerf T3s after buffing the Hacs, people will just stop flying T3s all together price differences between ships and classes need to be justified and maybe even greater. make the gap price gap as well as the power gab between ships justifiable People wouldn't fly HACs either, WHers would be utterly screwed, and nobody flies T3s in lowsec/nullsec anyway! (Outside of the occasional Loki fleet, CFC Tengu fleet has been dumpstered)
Because people want to do weird things after smoking bizarre stuff or drinking even harder stuff.
200K EHP Tengus with 25km range? -what is silly here, the 200K EHP or the inability to adapt?
Do Lokis have 200k EHP and shoot at 100km? no they don't Can a decently fitted Tengu shoot at same distances with an equivalent tank? -yes it can but :effort:
T3's are not OP, not more op than were Drakes 3 years ago before everyone starts flying them, players uses however bring to the spot light the real issues and causes to effect, the main problem being to make some of them take their blinders off and use a bit their brains instead. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
991
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 12:04:00 -
[20] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Hey guys, another short update.
Spent most of the day yesterday on prep for the Alliance Tournament and of course today and tomorrow will be spent on 64 total AT matches. Fozzie and I are still talking a lot about this rebalance and have some good ideas going forward but because of the tournament you will have to wait until the start of the work week.
Check out the AT in the meantime =) Any chance of putting these ships up to 16 slots like HICs and T3 ships?
Fck 16 slots, give them a 3rd rig slot and 400 calibration !! *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
991
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 12:40:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:PS: yes, the med gun changes will make them better, but they also make the T1 ships better by the same amount.
This is so true, thx to third rig slot bonus and slots layout T1 cruisers will still be the best option because T2's will bring nothing interesting over T1 versions, the MWD bonus is terrible and often second bonus is not good enough except once again for the only AHAC that was already very good: Zealot
Despite this, a Navy Omen will be a very good choice over Zealot, drones add very nice options. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
991
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 12:53:00 -
[22] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hey guys, another short update.
Spent most of the day yesterday on prep for the Alliance Tournament and of course today and tomorrow will be spent on 64 total AT matches. Fozzie and I are still talking a lot about this rebalance and have some good ideas going forward but because of the tournament you will have to wait until the start of the work week.
Check out the AT in the meantime =)
Meanwhile let me quote my self and maybe give you some better ideas about AHACS role:
Quote:My question after T1 cruisers rebalance, after ABCs rebalance is, and legitimate I think: what are AHAC/SHAC supposed to be specialized at? Being expensive with no real benefit over T1 versions nor good enough to compete with ABC's? -what's the point?
Of course this is only my version and vision of AHAC's/SHAC's but ihmo for a very specialized ship they need to get the special role they're meant to and most important the tools to achieve their task:
-be dam fast with a nasty small signature and tank (via resist profile), 0 sign bloom when MWD or change bonus to 100% AB speed eventually even bigger to catch MWD speeds
-deliver average 650dps SR at least (BC dps for a T2 specialized cruiser isn't OP) with in disruption/web range without requiring additional range modules
-get a 3rd rig slot !! this is clearly important and there's no reason they shouldn't have it to increase the interest over T1's
With these changes the natural way to balance those bonus is to force those ships to resist profile tank rather than buffer
->very small signature with good speed and nasty resist profile and only after------->DPS *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
992
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 13:42:00 -
[23] - Quote
Alticus C Bear wrote:Not sure about third rig slot or extra slots in general but more calibration on all T2 ships could enable more T2 rig choices especially when a T2 DPS rig is 300.
Maybe 500.
The third rig slot on Hacs is not only needed but should even be the first thing they get on this balance.
Notice I'm not saying all T2 cruisers and for a reason:
-Logistics are already way too powerful and need a nerf bat
-Reccons can point stuff at stupid ranges with faction modules, yes those are weak tanks but since logistics are totally OP...
-HICs can already fit a huge nasty tank (active with uber ASB) bubble, infinite point and a web
These don't need a 3rd rig slot because logi/Ewar/bble are already far too strong but HACs clearly need it or if they don't then more slots more cpu and pg and better bonus. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
994
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 00:02:00 -
[24] - Quote
Alivea Starborn wrote:So: why doesn't one of the Gallente HACs have an armor repair bonus?
There's an Amarr HAC with an armor resistance bonus, a Caldari HAC with a shield resist bonus, and a Minmatar HAC with a shield boost bonus, but no Gallente repair bonus.
Those already have problems fitting highest tier guns and all the stuff without fittings rigs/mods, give them one repair bonus and it's another wasted bonus.
Ishtar? can't fir drone mods properly already
Deimos? can't make any decent fit without at least 1 fitting rig
Don't give Rise bad ideas like this one plz or he might as well do it *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1001
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 11:47:00 -
[25] - Quote
JerseyBOI 2 wrote:Harvey James wrote:Allandri wrote:Who would like to see HACs (High EHP) reduced to one ship for each race and the others relegated to a new class of skirmish cruisers (High speed, lower sig)? as a class they should all be geared toward the same style otherwise you might aswell split them into multiple classes which as it stands you probably could... -snipers - Vaga .. about the only skirmish one here - brawlers yeah because the tier3's aren't snipy enough. We have enough fleet ships in the game. HACS are better suited for fast small scale skirmishes. Stop trying to make every hull fit nicely into large scale fleets
And no matter how good you'll make them for solo/small skirmish work they'll be stupidly OP in larger numbers.
Yes they need bonus tweaks and fittings adjustments, more CPU PG and either +1 slot or +1 rig slot -I'd rather see another rig but wouldn't mind rig+slot.
Eve is about numbers no matter how much we argue about who's right or not, CCP dev's already said it many times and even delivered videos where comment starts "Eve is about numbers" so no need to consider solo snowflakes.
Pick the T1 version:
-make it tankier ? hell yes -higher dps and range application? -hell yes
-give them better fittings so they don't have to use fitting rigs or mods? again yes !! *a huge chunk of interest is given away to T1's advantage at each fitting rig/mod fitted to the hull, which is not much of a problem in small skirmish/solo job because they're not really bad at this but when you stack numbers the drawback becomes exponential for little gain over T1 ships
Then add med long range weapons changes, for the sake of a good example who will end terribly is rails change, first rails changes they got about 15% tracking, some rof taken away and given a better dmg multiplier on top of fittings. Now the best bonus rails need to ever apply dmg is being taken away (tracking) add some rof and dmg but nullifies the dmg increase because of lower tracking which means without several TE's and TC's making the poor ship even worst than a T1 he will not be able to compete with T1 versions.
This is the current silliness: T1's in numbers with support can easily kill same numbers of T2's which should be possible by fleet tactics and players/FC's awareness but not because T2 HACs are simply terrible, and for each T2 HAC you kill they need to kill about 6 T1 versions, there's no T2 HAC currently that can deal with as much DPS from 6 T1's, this ratio needs to be lowered at 1:3 at least which means T2 versions are in need of huge changes and not the simple ones proposed. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1005
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 00:37:00 -
[26] - Quote
Roime wrote:So real cost difference is only 10x, 3-4 days of training and you get twice as much dps and about six times more EHP. And HACs are barely better than T1, but take longer to train than T3.
How so?
Because once I got Gallente cruiser 5 all i needed was a couple days for Heavy Assault Cruiser.
Then I had to train Strategic cruiser and subs but still couldn't make any use of decent point without related skills, so I trained propulsion jamming to 5, wait it's the same than all other ships...
Then I tried, and maybe a bit too hard, to give reps with my Proteus. Short story, my buddy ship died and my ship was cap out on single activation of rep modules.
Then I tried to launch bombs with but there was no sub for that, left disappointed.
Then I tried to bble with and once again, left disappointed
I also tried to point at 109km with my Proteus like I can do with my ... Lachesis guess what? - left disappointed
Then someone told me "Dude Proteus is a beast, push 800k EHP and hits like a battleship" -I tried, donu how many times but I really tried hard and once I got max EHP with full plates resists T2 rigs yadaya, well my Thorax has more DPS so once again left disappointed.
Then I tried it with drones and said to my self "yey!! I'm playing Gallente character, dude, DRONES ARE OUR THING !!" Guess what? -left disappointed
I'll continue tomorrow for more decepticons. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1008
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 00:55:00 -
[27] - Quote
Kane Fenris wrote:Baren wrote:SO We are all IN Agree ment?
HACs shoulw have two roles, whith each Role having a unique Bonus?
i think the only agreement here is that were all unsatisfied with stuff .... most common concern : hacs suck cause they mostly lack purpose. followed by: if they have (or had) purpose they are overshadowed by other stuff and or unviable due to changed meta.
Well they were overshadowed by T3's, at least some, before Heavy Missile changes, before HAM changes and before T1 Cruisers changes.
Now that this important part of the game is done you don't see that many of those being fielded and there's a reason: T1's are clearly very very good.
Power creep? -Too late
That's what happens when you don't listen to players base feedback. You do the same job twice, quite professional (not)
Step back on T1's, sure, decrease tank/mobility/dps for 5/7% and maybe new HACs might look better but still in need at least of 20%+ EHP either by resist profile or hp or combination of 2, better mobility and be at least 10% faster than T1 versions, then add better fittings a third rig slot and we're done with HACs and T3's at the same time because those HACs will eat T3's alive. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1011
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 11:31:00 -
[28] - Quote
Roime wrote:Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris I fit blasters on the Myrm as well, balancing ships to use off-racial weapons is really not a concept that should be taken seriously. Omnathious Deninard wrote:I will leave this here for you. CCP Rise wrote: I don't think of it as a ship that ought to be running medium sized mods in all its high slots.
And I don't think drones are viable as the single damage source in small gang PVP with their current stats, mechanics and UI. Which were supposed to be looked at along with the Domi changes.
Pretty much agree with Roime on this point.
For solo/small gang work drones are bad with travel time easy to kill (who doesn't kill drones vs a drone ship?), now if the idea is to make all drones ships to be fleet ships dropping drones and assign them to one person then be it but this will take a lot of interest for this ship to be used in smaller engagements which adds nothing interesting to the game.
This ship should be able to fit either guns and not have enough CPU without fitting mods to ad a DDA or fit DDA's and not able to fit all highs with med guns but giving these options to players doesn't make the ship out of whack nor bad, it's just good for everyone. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1011
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 12:10:00 -
[29] - Quote
Maximilian Akora wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Hey again
So we had the tournament this weekend and then I was out of the office yesterday. I'm getting started on this topic again today, but as evidenced by this enormous thread, there's plenty to do. I think we will have another CSM review step before getting the new version (which isn't even finished yet) back to you guys. If things go well, I'll have a new pass for you guys by the end of this week, if things go slow it would probably be start of next week.
Thanks for all the feedback and ideas. A lot of you have different ideas about these ships, but hopefully we can distill some good stuff and do a revision that you're all excited about. Please don't listen too much to the "make it work in blobs" folks, thanks.
Thing is that whatever you do to make them good for solo small gang they will be exponentially better when you stack 150+, like it or not but you should think about previous Drakes without a single change becoming from one year of "terrible worthless ship" to "Drakes are OP"
However, changes considering stacking numbers and fleet fights will always profit to smaller engagements and even make solo work a lot better/healthy. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1017
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 10:19:00 -
[30] - Quote
Sharwen Anchev wrote:I see no reason to buy the currently proposed Zealot when the Omen Navy Issue exists.
To feel special and not frustrated for spending so much time training for it. Plus your T1 cruiser will get a better insurance reimbursement than your T2 thing. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1017
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 10:23:00 -
[31] - Quote
Kane Fenris wrote:Stridsflygplan wrote:the old vagabond is 8.75m/s faster then the new one. that is about 75m/s nerf when MWD is running and two nano fitted. why nerf the speed on a ship that is supposed to be specialized to going fast? why you people ***** about this 75m/s when the problem why the ship isnt as dangerous as it used to be lies elsewhere... the problem of the vaga is with blaster rebalance te nerf and ship reworks and taloses out there its prey went nearly extinct to be a viable solo ship (there need to be more solo ships) it needs to be ale to kite cause in solo ships you need to be able to engage against the odds and be able to run, brawling solo will just get you webed scramed and killed. when you want the vaga to be viable solo ship again you need to up its dmg projection at kite range and maybe up its kite range by buffing longpoits or giveing it a longpoint bonus.
Sure needs 5km/s speed 15m sign radius hit with 425mm at 50 km (at least) and able to fit double xl-asb before implants ogb and combat boosters.
Minmatar are the fastest (except stupid Cynabal) do the best dps in fall off and selectable dmg, Vaga problem lies somewhere else: SFI and Stabber good enough to do the same job for cheaper, that's it. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1017
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 10:31:00 -
[32] - Quote
Lucine Delacourt wrote:My first thoughts:
- Double web Deimos seems like it could be better than most are giving it credit for.
- 40% Scout Drone damage per level or something similar instead of the generic 20% drone damage bonus would promote hit and run Ishtar tactics and separate it from the plethora of cruiser/BC sized drone hulls.
- The Sac still seems a bit lackluster, a little more CPU/Cap if you want a Neut or Tinker setup or switch a high for a low if you want it buffered.
- The ASB Vaga will eat faces.
- Zealot is pretty close. Not sure what to do without OPing it.
An ishtar with a sign radius of a frigate fitted with MSE's using battleship guns (sentries) DDA's sentry rigs and 40% bonus would not be OP at all, really. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1017
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 10:49:00 -
[33] - Quote
Onictus wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
An ishtar with a sign radius of a frigate fitted with MSE's using battleship guns (sentries) DDA's sentry rigs and 40% bonus would not be OP at all, really.
Nope because would get jacked up by a frigate.
Can't fit light drones?-imho that frigate would have hard time killing it unless with support, except if it's another faction fitted passive shield ishtar.
*removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1017
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 10:52:00 -
[34] - Quote
Kane Fenris wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Kane Fenris wrote:Stridsflygplan wrote:the old vagabond is 8.75m/s faster then the new one. that is about 75m/s nerf when MWD is running and two nano fitted. why nerf the speed on a ship that is supposed to be specialized to going fast? why you people ***** about this 75m/s when the problem why the ship isnt as dangerous as it used to be lies elsewhere... the problem of the vaga is with blaster rebalance te nerf and ship reworks and taloses out there its prey went nearly extinct to be a viable solo ship (there need to be more solo ships) it needs to be ale to kite cause in solo ships you need to be able to engage against the odds and be able to run, brawling solo will just get you webed scramed and killed. when you want the vaga to be viable solo ship again you need to up its dmg projection at kite range and maybe up its kite range by buffing longpoits or giveing it a longpoint bonus. Sure needs 5km/s speed 15m sign radius hit with 425mm at 50 km (at least) and able to fit double xl-asb before implants ogb and combat boosters. Minmatar are the fastest (except stupid Cynabal) do the best dps in fall off and selectable dmg, Vaga problem lies somewhere else: SFI and Stabber good enough to do the same job for cheaper, that's it. i dont get your "irony" i never porposed the things you said and wont... the problem lies in "the same job" and "cheaper" it should be better then those ships and and a little bit diffrent. mostly you see stabber/fstabber in small fleets (2-5 ships). vaga should be able to be flown solo effectively (but not easy).
And vaga already can, hit&run tactics used by many vaga pilots with asb fits work dam good and are very nasty setups, if Rise keeps the rep bonus it will just be the fastest solo hit&run ship in the game ratters and solo dudes frigate pilots should be really afraid at the sight of one of these. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1018
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 23:13:00 -
[35] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Lloyd Roses wrote:I would totally love:
Marauder-Hardpoints, cause my HUD would look near identical to a frig's with 3 guns (like using 3 highslots for weaponry, acting as 6 turrets, boosted by fitting boni to achieve the same damage as before)
100% damage bonus would be cool. ~50k EHP, over 750 DPS, that would be worth 150m+ Would also make epic snipers...
Fully supported, this is an epic idea indeed
*removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1018
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 23:38:00 -
[36] - Quote
Lucine Delacourt wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Lucine Delacourt wrote:My first thoughts:
- Double web Deimos seems like it could be better than most are giving it credit for.
- 40% Scout Drone damage per level or something similar instead of the generic 20% drone damage bonus would promote hit and run Ishtar tactics and separate it from the plethora of cruiser/BC sized drone hulls.
- The Sac still seems a bit lackluster, a little more CPU/Cap if you want a Neut or Tinker setup or switch a high for a low if you want it buffered.
- The ASB Vaga will eat faces.
- Zealot is pretty close. Not sure what to do without OPing it. An ishtar with a sign radius of a frigate fitted with MSE's using battleship guns (sentries) DDA's sentry rigs and 40% bonus would not be OP at all, really. The bonus is for SCOUT drones so it wouldn't apply to sentries or heavies but thanks for reacting without bothering to read.
You're welcome.
Do you really think there aren't enough of sentry carriers, sentry battleships, battleships with guns AND sentries then cruisers with sentries...? mkay.
Give the ishtar a real cruiser sized bonus for scout drones? -ok for dps but really needs to increase those drones speed and reduce scout drones signature significantly so those survive to small guns/smartbombing easier, no guns needed. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1019
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 10:25:00 -
[37] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Vaga needs 5 mids OR change the shield boost bonus for something USEFUL!
This I can agree, if you want to make a kitter you don't fit plates on it but shield modules and having 5 mids is not luxury but the minimum required.
Take one low for a mid and make it 6-5-4 (H-M-L), eventually change that shield boost bonus for a tracking one but make sure it's not another 180mm's frigate murderer asb fitted and linked running over 5k speed and impossible to catch (frigates get insta pop anyway)
*removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1022
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 00:22:00 -
[38] - Quote
Rise said by the end of this week (we're there) or beginning next one.
So let me call out:
RISE !!
The heck dude?? *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1023
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 09:33:00 -
[39] - Quote
NorthCrossroad wrote:Overall I think these changes are done everywhere, but not anywhere near the correct place :)
If you want to properly - do it in several stages.
Also I'd suggest several things to consider as a first step: 1. Nerf the cynabal. It's just straight up better then vaga (or balance all line of pirate cruisers). With cyna out of the way - you can better see what to do with vagabond. 2. Drop the price of the HACs. For now they just don't worth the money. Their market cost should be like 100mil. With reasonable buff their cost/efficiency will be much better. 3 [optional]. Give the HACs a reasonable class ability. 50% reduction of signature bloom is almost useless. AF with similar bonus costs 40-50mil - that is a good cost for a small, but durable tackle. Paying 150-200mil for HAC heavy tackle is just stupid. Maybe buff the HAC sensor strength so it has a built-in ECCM. Or some kind of neut protection bonus (like only 30% neuting is applied).
After these easy steps you'll have much clearer picture of where the hacs should be.
North
This is another good thinking about HACs and ideas route that should be considered. *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1034
|
Posted - 2013.07.27 11:03:00 -
[40] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:i say blops should bet role bonus to use mjd while cloaked
Would rather like to see them use cover ops cloak because using MJD while cloak gives them an amazing ability, I'm all for it
So we're not getting V2 HAC revamp before next week? *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
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